DAVID ELLEFSON Talks Songwriting Splits In MEGADETH: 'The More Fair You Can Be On All Of It, The Better'

In a new interview with Canada’s The Metal Voice, former MEGADETH bassist David Ellefson was asked if the upcoming Nick Menza documentary, “This Was My Life: Nick Menza’s Metal Memories With Megadeth And Beyond”, which Ellefson co-produced, paints MEGADETH leader Dave Mustaine in a negative light or if it’s a “fair” depiction of how everything went down during Menza‘s time with the band. Ellefson responded (as transcribed by BLABBERMOUTH.NET: “I think it’s very fair, and I went to great lengths to make sure that Dave is viewed very fairly. He’s held in high esteem. In fact, what Nick said about him, even in [Nick‘s] book [‘Megalife: The Autobiography Of Nick Menza’] — I read his book. I was the first guy interviewed for his book. And I was nervous about it ’cause I was in MEGADETH at the time, and I didn’t want this to be any kind of shit talking… No, I think it’s very fair. There’s absolutely nothing slanderous toward Dave at all in it. I made sure of that, because Dave was my partner during that time.

“Dave and I always had a saying: you praise in public, you criticize in private,” Ellefson explained. “And with the Internet and all this bullshit now, people seem to have suddenly forgot that, that they just go on the Internet and talk shit about everybody. And that’s not cool; it really isn’t. Even Nick‘s comments about his relationship with Dave… I noticed in [Nick‘s] book, he would be upset about something and then he’d say, ‘But I realized I needed to make amends,’ or, ‘I realized I was wrong about this,’ or ‘I realized it was Dave‘s band.’ Nick would tell me that. He’d get in the car, we’d be going to the airport or something or we’d be traveling, and he’d say, ‘I was talking to my dad’, because Nick‘s dad’s badass — Don Menza [American jazz saxophonist], he’s fucking badass in his genre — and [Don would] always say, he goes, ‘Goddamn it. It’s Dave‘s band. Do it his way,’ da da da. ‘Cause Don worked under some pretty tough guys — Buddy Rich, Louie Bellson. He did a ton of studio work with the greats, and he played on records with TOTO. He played on Madonna records, I mean, Don‘s badass. So Don knew, when you’re hired, suit up, show up, shut up, play your part, you know what I mean? Get your check and go home and don’t cause trouble. I think probably Don was as hard on Nick as anybody.”

Ellefson went on to talk about how certain bands share everything equally, regardless if some members never write lyrics or a melody, while others have one or two main songwriters who receive the lion’s share of royalties. He said: “Look, being in a rock group, it was hard because one of the things that was successful about that ‘Rust In Peace’ lineup is we really did try to make it a team and a group, and that means that we’re trying to work together yet everybody has a different role.

“[Then-MEGADETH manager] Ron Laffitte and I talked one day about songwriting, ’cause, look, songwriting, publishing, and how the money is split, that’s a sure way to either make a band stay together or split up. [RUSH‘s] Geddy Lee talks very openly about it. He goes, ‘Hey, at one point we just decided, let’s just split it three ways. That just takes that argument off the table.’ And that was always an issue in MEGADETH — always. Dave, from the very beginning, and it probably stems back to his days with METALLICA and his songs. And I read it in his book, he said those songs for him, that means everything to him, and boy, he protects that. So, look, at some point, it’s an argument you’re gonna lose. And we’d have many conversations about it. [MEGADETH‘s sixth album, 1994’s] ‘Youthanasia’, we went into it — it was actually Nick‘s idea, he said, he goes, ‘Let’s just pre-decide upfront how much everybody’s gonna get.’ That way when we’re showing up every day, whoever brings the best idea that day will get used and it won’t have any agenda of, ‘Well, he’s gonna make more money than me’ or ‘How come he’s got more songs on a record than me?’ Just bring your best, and if it turns out they’re all Dave and Marty [Friedman, then-MEGADETH guitarist] songs, then whatever — at least me and Nick will get paid too. And it turned out to be, I think, a pretty fair split of stuff. So that was Nick‘s idea. Now, it only worked on one album, and Dave didn’t wanna do it anymore after that. But it was a great album and is one of the more esteemed, especially internationally, one of the greatest MEGADETH records that we made — ’cause it feels like a group; it feels like a team.”

Ellefson continued: “I remember [famed producer] Mike Clink told me he told the GUNS N’ ROSES guys that when they did ‘Appetite For Destruction’. He said, ‘Look, this is a long road ahead. If you guys have any success at all, and that’s still to be determined, you guys have got a lot of years in the trenches, man. You’ve gotta split everything equally or else you’ll never survive.’ And that was coming from the producer.

“The more fair you can be on all of it, the better, at least in the beginning,” Ellefson added. “And then, as often happens, one or two people try to grab the rest of it and take it for themselves and then bands fall apart. So, yeah, it’s not often you see a group — RUSH is one of the very few where they somehow had a friendship in there and they made it work financially, they made it work creatively. And it’s not often that that happens. I mean, we went through every version of that in and out of sobriety.”

Ellefson was originally in MEGADETH from the band’s inception in 1983 to 2002, when the group briefly broke up because MEGADETH leader Dave Mustaine suffered severe nerve damage that left him unable to play.

Mustaine reformed MEGADETH 21 years ago. Originally setting out to record a solo album, Mustaine enlisted studio musicians to play on what ultimately became MEGADETH‘s 2004 “The System Has Failed” comeback album, subsequently recruiting former ICED EARTH bassist James MacDonough to take Ellefeson‘s place for the album’s touring cycle.

Ellefson sued Mustaine in 2004 for $18.5 million, alleging that the MEGADETH guitarist/vocalist still owed him substantial merchandise and publishing royalties. In January 2005, the case was dismissed in court, and five years later, Ellefson rejoined MEGADETH.

In his first book, Ellefson admitted that he became a salaried employee upon his return to MEGADETH 15 years ago. He told Metal-Rules.com in an interview: “Going from being a co-founding owner to just a sideman musician was initially why I didn’t come back in 2004. I was not happy with the participations that were presented to me. In recent times, coming back, I found great joy in doing music with a lot of other people in other settings that helped me fall back in love with playing music. Now I can come back into or go into musical situations and be able to be there for a purpose and level of pay. Being a sideman absolves you from being involved in all the other stuff. At this point in my life, I would rather leave that stuff on the sidelines. Like American Express says, ‘membership has its privileges,’ being a sideman has its benefits. In my case, it helps retain a friendship too. In order to have a friendship, I had to give up some ownership.”

During a February 2021 appearance on Mitch Joel‘s “Groove – The No Treble Podcast”, Ellefson reflected on his legal battle with Mustaine, saying: “I firmly believe Dave and I ended up in that situation because he and I were not directly communicating. There was a new manager, a new lawyer, a new team of people, and they were all trying to impress the client, so they were just, ‘Well, we’re just doing whatever the boss tells us to do.’ And it’s, like, wait a minute — your job is to manage and counsel and direct your client, and — in my opinion — avoid litigation, avoid these things. Those people are no longer here — they’ve all been let go, thank God — and once most of them were let go was when Dave and I had an opportunity to come back and reconcile. And as soon as Dave and I get in a room, it’s, like, ‘What the hell are we fighting over? Get your guitar. Let’s play. Let’s jam.’ And then it becomes about the music, and there it is. So when we keep it on that level, it goes well. When the business people and the lawyers and the people come in and they try to sort of put logic around it, that’s when the trouble [begins].

“I’ve always said MEGADETH is completely illogical — there’s no logic to it at all,” he continued. “And there’s not really supposed to be, because it’s something of the heart — it’s not of the head; it’s of the heart. I always say the longest journey is the 15 inches from the head to the heart. To memorize it is one thing, but to know it by heart is another thing. And that’s what we do as musicians — we don’t just memorize it; we have to really [know] it by heart. And that’s what a group is — a musical setting is about that. And, of course, there has to be some sort of business dynamic around it to kind of make it work, I guess — at least for the accountants.”

In September 2020, Mustaine spoke about Ellefson‘s lawsuit during an appearance on Fox Sports 910‘s “Freak Nation”. He said at the time: “I think forgiveness is a super-cool thing. When David Ellefson sued me for 18 and a half million dollars, and the judge dismissed it and then made him pay a bunch of money on top of that, he got his ass handed to him in public. And I was really, really, really hurt by the things that he said about me. And I thought, ‘You know what? If I never see him again, I guess I’ll be okay.’ And I was sad, but I figured he was gone. One day, I was flying home from Dallas, and the flight stopped in [Ellefson‘s hometown of] Phoenix, and for some stupid reason, I called him up and I said, ‘Hey, you wanna have dinner?’ And he said, ‘Yes.’ So we went out. And the first thing he said was, ‘I wanna tell you, it was the stupidest thing I ever did suing you, and I wanna apologize.’ And I looked at him and I waited a beat, and I said, ‘Dave, I forgive you. I completely forgive you. I love you.’ And it was over like that. And I think that that’s really something great that people should take with them today, anybody listening to this. There may be somebody you need to forgive or somebody you need to apologize to, but I’ll tell you what — it makes [you feel] a lot better at the end of the day.”

In his 2004 lawsuit against Mustaine, Ellefson claimed that he “attempted to resolve his differences with Mustaine on an amicable basis and offered to continue to perform with [MEGADETH].” However, his “offers were met with verbal abuse, threats, lies and continued invective from Mustaine.” Ellefson also said that Mustaine — a veteran of at least 17 drug rehab stints, according to the bassist — resented Ellefson, a former drug addict, for having kicked his own habit. According to Ellefson‘s court papers, the battle of the band spread to the Internet when Mustaine posted on Megadeth.com that Ellefson was trying to extort him.

Mustaine gave his version of why the 2004 reunion with Ellefson didn’t pan out in a message posted on the MEGADETH web site. In lengthy essay, Mustaine claimed that Ellefson missed several deadlines to accept his offer, which included 20% of the artist royalties on “The System Has Failed”, none of the publishing royalties and a $2,500-a-week salary while the band was on the road.

Ellefson was fired from MEGADETH nearly four years ago after sexually tinged messages and explicit video footage involving the bassist were posted on Twitter.

Photo credit: Maciej Pieloch (courtesy of Napalm Records)