‘He Feels Terrible About It’

Derek Engemann, who plays with Philip Anselmo in both SCOUR and PHILIP H. ANSELMO & THE ILLEGALS, has supported Anselmo regarding the backlash stemming from his controversial actions at a 2016 California concert.

This controversy arose after Anselmo, while performing “Walk” at the “Dimebash” tribute, made a gesture and seemingly uttered words that were interpreted as a N*zi salute and “white power,” though Anselmo later attributed his actions to a misunderstood joke about white wine and a reaction to audience provocation.

In a new interview with the John The Ninja podcast, Engemann said (as transcribed by Blabbermouth): “Yeah, that was an unfortunate event, to say the least. [SCOUR‘s] John Jarvis and I were actually there at the ‘Dimebash’ that night. We were backstage hanging out and drinking. There was a lot of drinking involved. It is what it was back then. But a lot of people don’t really realize what happened.

“So, they jammed all night for Dime, bringing out supergroups of [different] people. Rex [Brown, PANTERA bassist] was there; all kinds of people were there. And Phil came out at the end for three songs. I think they did [a cover of a] MOTÖRHEAD [song], they did [PANTERA‘s] ‘A New Level’, I think, and something else.

“The second [Phil] came out on stage, there was a group of these three guys that were just — they were just heckling him from the second he walked out on stage, like, You racist. You f**king racist,’ blah, blah, blah. And everyone’s, like, ‘Yo, shut the f**k up. We’re trying to enjoy PANTERA. This is for Dime. This isn’t about your bulls**t.’ And they just kept on heckling him the entire time he was out. And at the end, he just lost it. And he was a little drunk and he did the most offensive thing he could to those people. And they were there with their camera. It wasn’t like he had pure hate in his heart, and he’s, like, ‘This is what I’m gonna say tonight. I’m gonna make a statement.’ It was, like, these motherf**kers were heckling him all night long, and he just threw gas on the fire. And it was super unfortunate. I know he feels terrible about it. [It was] probably a little embarrassing, I’m sure.”

Engemann revealed that the backlash against Anselmo’s behavior almost stopped SCOUR from ever getting started.

“We weren’t sure if SCOUR was gonna happen, ’cause we had the stuff ready to go, and we had every record label wanting to put it out at that time,” he said. “We almost had our pick. And then that happened, and we didn’t have our pick anymore. So the album got delayed by, like, six, eight months. And then I wanna say it was the first thing that was released by Phil after that incident. So it was kind of, like, ‘How much slack are we gonna be taking for this?’ ‘Cause black metal has a history of some not nice people involved, and it was kind of a toss-up. But we were, like, ‘You know what? The music’s good. We’re just gonna go with it.’ We put it out.”

Returning to Anselmo‘s controversial gesture, Derek added: “It’s not the best part of history, but Phil‘s owned it. He’s apologized. That’s not who he is. I’ve toured with him around the world with THE ILLEGALS, SCOUR shows, PANTERA stuff. It’s just not who he is. Even our most recent videos were shot by Malcolm Pugh, who’s half black. That’s my dawg. We go back 20 years too. We used to live together and whatnot. But he said people kept asking him, like, ‘Oh, I can’t believe you’re working with [Phil] after that.’ And he’s like, man, ‘Phil‘s been nothing but gracious to me, backstage, at his home.’ He’s, like, ‘I don’t even know what you’re talking about.’